Curse

Lumpen · Oct 13, 2010, 10:58 PM // 22:58

I've just returned to GW and was looking forward to running some Orders/Battery in a HM vank/dungeon situation. I didn't find any such builds (Other than the derv/ele versions) on PvX and all the comments regarding an Order-type build seemed to be saying that orders/bip isn't used anymore because of the bar efficiency of the ebon vanguard wards and the power of mop nukes.

My most enjoyable GW experience (before I stopped playing) was when I was playing orders/battery for barrage teams in Topk... If that gives any idea of where I'm coming from.

With the buff to Blood Bond, I really find it hard to believe this sort of build isn't popular! <3

So, is there still a need for orders/battery, dare I say, in the current meta?
I'm brushing up on my MoP skills at the moment and I'm looking into an OoU MM build as well. Both are fun but lack the non-dedicated healer/support/general oomph role that I loved to play.

TL;DR Please give general info about whether necro orders/battery is still useful or not

Builds?

TalanRoarer · Oct 13, 2010, 11:10 PM // 23:10

If you want to play orders, you need to play in a physical based team (Although you probably know this).

Anyway, orders bars are still used when I play with my guild. In pugs, not so much.

The average Mr.Joe Puglic will scream for you to run some reactive SS shitty bar. Get used to that, unless you have a guild who enjoys playing Physway.

Not many people about run mainly physical based teams though, it seems people can't understand that Physical damage can outshine any other form.

Calista Blackblood · Oct 13, 2010, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Ya know... This is a brilliant question :P

IMO: The power and efficiency gained from PvE skills such as Ebon wards really does nullify any real usefullness out of an orders build,definately detrimental to the orders nec in that,any profession can run the ward.

But! There are builds out there (dual para/Racway) that run brilliantly with an orders nec or derv,I was vanquishing with one earlier

Sadly Talon is 100% spot on in his/her post. Necros can buff physical damage to scary amounts before PvE only skills (Ebon ward/GDW/BUH)yet nobody really ever does it in a party built around physicals.

An orders bar would get laughed out of a party doing tombs unless they're specifically doing old school BPway.

Edit:If anyone ever wants an orders my ign is my username :P

Lumpen · Oct 13, 2010, 11:56 PM // 23:56

I took a look at Racway. That build would be hella fun to play, definitely reminds me of BP teams.
I'm debating over OotV/BR vs BiP/OP. Maybe it comes down to play style.
My initial thoughts were to run Conviction+Mystic Regeneration and a couple sups to keep my health down and regen/armor high.
I also really like Weaken Armor in HM, but it might be something I should run on a hero?
Def gunna run Blood Bond<3 zomg love that skill!
Maybe something like
12 Blood
6 Soul Reaping
6 Curses
10 Earth/Healing/Prot

I'm not good at theorycrafting, so help me out! xD

EDIT: In Racway I would def wanna run Dark Fury and Mark of Fury. Open slots are getting thin

MArcSinus · Oct 13, 2010, 11:57 PM // 23:57

The Physway necro comes to mind.

TalanRoarer · Oct 14, 2010, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Ok.

IMO, Don't run BiP. Go for your first choice, Ootv. (I doubt you'll even need BR).

I'd suggest that you pack 16 BM. Try OotV and then try OoP with Cutlist's Fervor.

Each has their own advantages/disadvantages.

You'll want to run the ebon wards, as Calista suggested.

Other than that, try what you want really (don't go overboard with the self heal, if your healers can't up your health then you might want to chaneg their bars.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MArcSinus

The Physway necro comes to mind.

Yes, My guild Physways absolutely everything. From The Deep (much to the disgust of the PvXfagmins) to Uw.

The point of that comment is that IF you can get into the right team, or get to know the right people... OoP/CF or OotV is viable.

Xenomortis · Oct 14, 2010, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalanRoarer

My guild Physways absolutely everything.

When was the last time we successfully cleared Ravenheart Gloom HM with physicals?

If your team has 3-4 physicals in it, then an Orders nec becomes very useful. You can maintain 4 copies of Strength of Honor whilst spamming OotV or OoP (under Cultist's Fervor) without too much difficulty (thanks to Soul Reaping) and Blood Bond really helps counter pressure on your frontline.

If your team asks you to run BiP though, I suggest leaving that team.

TalanRoarer · Oct 14, 2010, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

When was the last time we successfully cleared Ravenheart Gloom HM with physicals?

My guild Physways absolutely everything except for RHG HM.

Lumpen · Oct 14, 2010, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Thank you for all the useful feedback ^^
rip bip, we had some great times...
I like CF/smite. That's prob what I'll run most of the time.
Good synergy and synergy is fun

And as far as orders being dead or not. It's as I feared... requires too much coordination in team comp to expect many pugs to need it

I'll just run MoP til I can find a guild I guess ^^

EDIT: Just curious what people's opinions are regarding health pool and self heal. I know Talan said to not go overboard

In Topk I always ran below 200hp and took BR/HB to spam orders (and bip*sadface*) without needing a healers attention.

PS: If I'm asking too many nooby questions and/or it's best to find out just by trial and error just yell at me ^^

NuclearSlug · Oct 14, 2010, 04:27 AM // 04:27

I'm glad to see there are still those that enjoy running in groups other than SoS+Discord teams. If the Derv update buffs mysticism the way I think they will, you can also try your physway love with an orders derv. /excited

TalanRoarer · Oct 14, 2010, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumpen

EDIT: Just curious what people's opinions are regarding health pool and self heal. I know Talan said to not go overboard

In Topk I always ran below 200hp and took BR/HB to spam orders (and bip*sadface*) without needing a healers attention.

PS: If I'm asking too many nooby questions and/or it's best to find out just by trial and error just yell at me ^^

First off, ask all the questions you want man.

Secondly, if you really want to BiP... you should probably be doing it in as low a health set as possible. (55/1hp) (Less sac = less heal required.)

However for CF/OoP or OotV, lower health sets are not needed.

HigherMinion · Oct 14, 2010, 05:00 PM // 17:00

I don't really know how NOT to put pressure on healers in a team as an Orders spammer unless the healers are ERs. But you can just have regular health and take Armour insignias instead of Survivor.

Xenomortis · Oct 14, 2010, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumpen

EDIT: Just curious what people's opinions are regarding health pool and self heal. I know Talan said to not go overboard

In Topk I always ran below 200hp and took BR/HB to spam orders (and bip*sadface*) without needing a healers attention.

Depends on your available spec.
If your backline isn't particularly strong (why are you running this build?) then stay back, drop your max health and use Blood Renewal. Extra stuff shouldn't be necessary and requires you to drop your atts for something else (you need Soul Reaping and Blood Magic and should have Strength of Honor (Smiting)).
With a lower max health though, you're very vulnerable so if you ever fall under attack you're in a fair bit of trouble if your monks aren't quick with Prot Spirit.

Arghore · Nov 13, 2010, 04:00 PM // 16:00

BiP's are only used in a few Elite area's, i ran it in Deep, Urgos and one or two dungeons; if you are in a guild that likes phys way then ofcourse an Order is always welcome (esp. a trained one :P ) ...

But, i have 'news' for you, i'm about to post a build i have been trying out which i dubbed 'blood heal', and i found it fairly effective on 6man teams but also on 8 man teams with just one decent monk ... so check out my post on it, may want to try it out and give me your feedback

Calista Blackblood · Nov 13, 2010, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghore

BiP's are only used in a few Elite area's,

Please inform us as to which elite areas BiP is used in *currently used builds*